What if prey didn't have to suffer? Meet the people who want to turn predators into vegans omarcafini.info meme-lord-mcgee arlluk there are actual people out. "Meet the people who want to turn predators into vegans" No thank you. - # added by RandomDoofus at Fucking Vegans. Turning predators into vegans What do you think? omarcafini.info Meet the people who want to want to turn predators into vegans. Some philosophers think .
Over the long term, I think any removal of predators would be continually undone by recruitment from herbivorous ancestors. By Christopher Taylor not verified on 28 Aug permalink If you read his website it appears as if their main interest is in human alteration - the animal section isn't particularly well thought out.
Its also rather arbitrary - why just vertebrates? Why not the invertebrates too?
Meet the people who want to turn predators into vegans | weaselwomanblog
Making a few lions in captivity vegetarian isn't that big an issue won't big tins of cat food do the job? By Sigmund not verified on 28 Aug permalink Good point Chris comment 5. I also didn't mention the fact that suffering and cruelty is not only caused by carnivores. Herbivorous animals can be vindictive bullies or killers or tormentors of conspecifics, they will occasionally kill and eat other animals as Tet Zoo regulars know, carnivory has been recorded in sheep, cattle, deer, elephants etc.
Meet the people who want to turn predators into herbivores | Veganism | Know Your Meme
I guess all living things need to be modified for Abolitionism to work. By tetrapodzoology on 28 Aug permalink If you read his website it appears as if their main interest is in human alteration - the animal section isn't particularly well thought out. When he showed up in the comments here at Tet Zoo, he specifically linked to the 'Reprogramming carnivores' section, so that's the bit I've been paying attention to.
And - before anyone else mentions it - yes I do know about 'Little Tyke' the 'vegetarian' lion. By tetrapodzoology on 28 Aug permalink As I am in agreement with the "What a terrible idea" commentor crowd, I feel like I should comment on one of my biggest pet peeves: Vegetarians and vegans do not have to worry about protein. Plants and seeds contain amino acids.
If you eat your colors like mommy told you, you will acquire a full complement of amino acids animal-free. Your body can then synthesize proteins from these amino acids. If your vegetarian, you can also pick up proteins from eggs and cheese, although I prefer but sometimes do to pass on these sources. As a bonus, veggie-based proteins come free of hormones and antibiotics that are a biological nightmare waiting to happen! Can we cut this protein nonsense out?
By Emily not verified on 28 Aug permalink Wow, I had to comment on this. What an utter boatload of steaming crappy stupidity. I love the kind of ideas people come up with when they don't think things through completely, or at all.
Don't these people realize what would happen if you totally obliterated the world's carnivores? This is stupidity and short-sightedness on par with the people who advocate racial genocide. Do they realize the human gene pool would stagnate after a while? Gable not verified on 28 Aug permalink Monty Python, where are you when we need you??????
Lopes not verified on 28 Aug permalink 'Eliminate suffering? Running is dangerous - they could break a leg! Obviously we would have to protect them from that, maybe some form of cage with a nice smooth floor, like concrete.
And weather - there are storms, snow, sunburn!
So they need to be inside, possibly in some form of barn arrangement. This is a spoof, isn't it? Please tell me it's a spoof. By Deb not verified on 28 Aug permalink emily "As a bonus, veggie-based proteins come free of hormones" Are you suggesting that plants do not have hormones?
Meet the people who want to turn predators into vegans
By JohnV not verified on 28 Aug permalink This seems to be the natural consequence of the moral standard, "Do no harm". By that standard, a lion killing and eating its prey really is evil. By falnfenix not verified on 28 Aug permalink Vegan animal rightist here: Humans have the ability to choose how we treat other species, and so we ought not harm them if it can be avoided as with food, etc. Predators don't need our moral choices thrust upon them.
Human "predation" is wrong because we could do otherwise, not merely because it causes harm.
I don't think wholescale modification of the entire ecosystem is a sane goal by any standard. By Ryan McReynolds not verified on 28 Aug permalink From what I've seen, transhumanism tends to be poorly thought out fluff based on the premise that through technology we will overcome our very natures.
The idea that we could then go on and overcome other species' natures with no consequence is just as far-fetched as the first premise. By ABradford not verified on 28 Aug permalink "There is nothing so absurd but some philosopher has said it.
THe worst part is, they give him money for this stuff. By chris y not verified on 28 Aug permalink I think the only feasible way to do it would be to sterilize the Earth and start over.
Extant organisms have evolved to live in and cope with the world as it exists with competition for resources the primary driving force for evolution. It is conceivably possible to artificially design organisms to have any properties that one wants them to have. For the synthetic ecosystem to be stable, it would have to comprise only non-replicating organisms.
If organisms had the opportunity to reproduce, then there would be evolution, and that evolution would ultimately lead to competition for resources. The suffering of dying, vs. If you are going to eliminate suffering through genetic engineering, eliminate the suffering of observing other organisms suffering and there is no driving force to eliminate any others.
We already have that. That is what the ARA do to themselves when they threaten researchers with violence. They cause the suffering of researchers who use animals by threatening them with violence and by threatening their children with violence.
By daedalus2u not verified on 28 Aug permalink "As a bonus, veggie-based proteins come free of hormones and antibiotics that are a biological nightmare waiting to happen! Say, years old perhaps and highly limited in lipid and cholesterol intake? Here's a tip, that "biological nightmare waiting to happen" or so you think in your own mind is, in fact, a result of one organism consuming another.
Eukaryotic or prokaryotic, plant or animal. All organisms have hormones and small chemical signals which will interact with the organism which has consumed them. No, those don't sound familiar, sorry to have bothered you. By Jared not verified on 28 Aug permalink So, what are they going to call this campaign, Starve the Children? Pumas prey on coyotes, coyotes prey on cats, cats prey on mice, mice prey on crickets.
Think of the crickets!6 "Vegetarian" Animals that Will Give You Nightmares
Limiting ourselves for some extreme morals is not something that I find logical, but I tolerate it, as long as nobody goes up to me saying that I am wrong because of my diet of choice. But, people are so used to alienating themselves from nature that they fail to understand it.
From life as a whole? Get out of your bubble, life sucks, but it is better that the alternative. Plus, I'd call those vegetarians who eat dairy and eggs hypocrites: You may not kill, yet you get nourishment from what was meant to be the food of an offspring, or even an offspring.
Killing may make something suffer, but, forceful milking or egg gathering are not innocent. If you don't like meat, but you like those producs, say it, instead of going ideological about animals not suffering, as a cow will kick you even if you are a vegan. But, that's my opinion, and, again, I will respect those people as long as they don't come as if their choice is the best one.
Again, this idea is idiotic. It is neglecting our nature, alongside the nature of life itself. So, this guy should be left in the woods to survive, to stop thinking and act. Carrot Juice is Murder Listen up brothers and sisters come hear my desperate tale I speak of our friends of nature trapped in the dirt like a jail Vegetables live in oppression, served on our tables each night This killing of veggies is madness, I say we take up the fight Salads are only for murderers, coleslaw's a fascist regime Don't think that they don't have feelings, just cause a radish can't scream Chorus: I've heard the screams of the vegetables scream, scream, scream Watching their skins being peeled having their insides revealed Grated and steamed with no mercy burning off calories How do you think that feels bet it hurts really bad Carrot juice constitutes murder and that's a real crime Greenhouses prisons for slaves let my vegetables go It's time to stop all this gardening it's dirty as hell Let's call a spade a spade is a spade is a spade is a spade I saw a man eating celery, so I beat him black and blue If he ever touches a sprout again, I'll bite him clean in two I'm a political prisoner, trapped in a windowless cage Cause I stopped the slaughter of turnips by killing five men in a rage I told the judge when he sentenced me, "This is my finest hour, I'd kill those farmers again just to save one more cauliflower" Chorus How low as people do we dare to stoop, Making young broccolis bleed in the soup?
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Untie your beans, uncage your tomatoes Let potted plants free, don't mash that potato! I've heard the screams of the vegetables scream, scream, scream Watching their skins being peeled fates in the stir-fry are sealed Grated and steamed with no mercy you fat gourmet slob How do you think that feels? By Mike from Ottawa not verified on 28 Aug permalink He's a troll. Don't feed the troll, not even veggies!
But he's still trolling, whether he's serious or not. Point, laugh, and move along. By John H not verified on 28 Aug permalink I don't think eliminating predators would necessarily lead to a herbivore population explosion. Or at least not eliminating them in the way that this guy advocates. After all, he's certainly not in favor of killing them off entirely, I'd imagine.
Instead, he wants to turn them into herbivores. So there'd be increased competition for food amongst the old and new herbivores, which would keep old herbivore populations down. By Onychomys not verified on 28 Aug permalink This is actually a fairly common viewpoint. Or, if not common, at least far more prevalent than it should be. I am a National Park Ranger. I work at an historic site, but we have our little bits of nature here.
While giving a talk about labour history, a Kestral hit and killed a sparrow in flight I got blood drops on my Stetson those hats ain't cheap. A visitor immediately asked why we didn't eliminate the bad bird this was an adult and yes, he used the phrase, "bad bird" to let the good ones live. I explained that if there were no predators, the balance would be upset and we'd end up with too many of the smaller birds. I then pointed out that sparrows eat insects and asked if he had something against bugs?
When at Yellowstone on vacationwe had the joy of watching a grizzly bear eating an elk. We were close enough that while still in the relative safety of our car minivan, actually we could hear the bones snap.
I overheard a visitor ask the LEO handling traffic control why they didn't eliminate the bears to protect the elk.
He explained that the NPS tried that with wolves, bear, coyotes, foxes and mountain lions from the s into the s and the herbivore population exploded, they ate all the food, died off due to starvation and disease and then went throught the cycle again. By letting 'nature' take its course including reintroducing wolves we saw three that day which is a thrill I will take to my gravethe population stays stable.
The visitor then asked if they could at least put up a screen because it was really gross to watch. By Billy Th… not verified on 28 Aug permalink That "phylosopher" wants to turn the world back to the PreCambrian.
By Andrea Cau not verified on 28 Aug permalink And what does this looney propose to do about parasites? By Omphaloskepsis not verified on 28 Aug permalink Suffering is an unavoidable consequence of biological life.
All biological life exists at some cost to other biological life. Biological life suffers from entropy, existing in a continual state of decay. Therefore, to eliminate suffering, we must eliminate biological life. When our ethically-programmed robot overlords decide to wipe us out for our own good, of course we'll have people like David Pearce to thank.
By ellindsey not verified on 28 Aug permalink I notice that in the link David Pearce mentioned eliminating parasitic tapeworms and cockroaches. Is this even possible? We've tried before, with mosquitoes, and failed.
Made things worse, even. By JW Tan not verified on 28 Aug permalink I probably wouldn't be reading this blog if I didn't have some love for the animal kingdom. Seeing as I love the animals, I'm left to believe that this guy has no love. He doesn't even understand how an ecosystem works. I'm certainly in the crowd that thinks it is wrong to impose human morals on any animal. Many argue that we should not interfere with nature, that we should let it run its course.
If predators became herbivorous, they would compete for resources with existing herbivores. This could have negative consequences for plant life and destroy habitats and ecosystems. Our understanding of the natural world is deeply ingrained in the concept that predators kill prey - think the Lion King and the Circle of Life. But predation eliminationists disagree.
There are concerns that herbivore populations would grow exponentially, though philosophers like Pearce say this could be controlled through fertility regulation. Without large-scale tests, the concept of predation elimination remains theoretical. However, there are many studies that look at the effects of removing a top predator from an ecosystem.
These studies suggest that ecosystems suffer when predators do not help control populations, and the consequences are vast.
For example, the loss of wolves and in some cases coyotes and foxes in the North Eastern United States have led to larger populations of mice, carriers of Lyme disease.
Many ecologists believe that this has exacerbated Lyme disease prevalence in the region. The same goes for deer populations. Deer provide a breeding ground for ticks, allowing tick populations to grow. Not all philosophers who have studied the question believe that predation should be completely eliminated, but many do think it should be reduced.
Peter Vallentyne, professor at the University of Missouri, is one of those philosophers. He argues that there are many forms of suffering in the world. To focus all our money and energy on preventing suffering through predation would be to ignore other moral issues like starvation or child abuse.